1. Thank you Fred,
    I guess I got a little carried away. I wondered why it was that you seemed to be in agreement with me for much of it, but you didn’t say much. You didn’t have to. What you said was just right, and I tried to douse the thing with Shut Up Juice- it seemed anyway.

    Honestly, I grew up with a “gifted” know-it-all younger brother, and I seem to get some twisted pleasure out of pushing buttons whenever I detect that sort of attitude directed at me. I don’t get angry about it. I rarely claim to be right- I only try to point out when I don’t think someone else is right. Assumptions presented as fact are what jab me the most- and it really gets to me when I’ve realized that I did the very same thing (sorry, DD). I really don’t care if I’m right or wrong- I’d like to know if I’ve gotten something wrong. But you have to show me I’m wrong with facts and not condescending insults. The word “Prove” is a nasty word in my opinion. It’s like a drop of that Shut-up-Juice, but I recognize it as that and refuse to swallow until I’ve said all I have to say about it.

    All that to say- I’m sorry if I’ve hurt anyone here or made anyone uncomfortable. 

    I like to argue. Just last week I was saying how it rarely gets ugly here, and then I go off and making the ugliest fool of myself that’s been here yet… But I want the depth. I want to know the details under your argument. If I’m wrong I want the facts that show me to be wrong- not just a continuous flow of vagueness that only restates what has already been said, but more defensively this time. But it just seems like depth sometimes isn’t possible in the comment’s section of a blog. Things aren’t read in the tone or with the meaning the writer intended. Eventually nerves get frayed and it degenerates. 

    I need to put my just-right offerings out there and leave it be.  Thanks again, Fred.

    • Maria Tatham says:

      Patrick! My sympathy for having such a sibling! Being refined and polished by the Lord in such a situation would be really difficult. But it made you who you are, and that is a good thing. I didn’t follow the dust-up last week, because my debating days are mostly over. Not much shut-up juice left, though I’ve been known to tap the top of a bottle of the stuff and splash a few drops on points of view that bother me. 

      Brave what you just did here, and humble.

      Maria

       

  2. Fred Warren says:

    Just to clarify, I wasn’t trying to point at anyone in particular with this…it was more of a cautionary fable, and I’m sure most of us have had some experience with debates that have degenerated into flame wars. I think we’ve kept the courtesy level pretty high here, but it’s an area where we all need to be vigilant.

    A few of the discussion threads did get a little warm last week, and yes, Patrick, I was getting ready to uncork my own personal jar of Shut Up Juice a couple of times and had to pull back. I think I discarded about six comments altogether. 🙂

  3. Galadriel says:

    It reminds me of a (justified) incident in the novel Beyond the Summerland where a woman disrespects a prophet and as a result, is unable to speak for three days.  There have been times I’ve wanted that power just to make things quiet–mostly on my brother, but sometimes on other people too…

  4. Maria Tatham says:

    Fred, I enjoyed this! Truth dressed in a John Deere ballcap.

    Maria

  5. Jill says:

    A few good ad hominem attacks and zingy one-liners are part of literary criticism’s long and illustrious past. Polite debate is so boring! 😉
     

    • Fred Warren says:

      Okay…where did I put that jar of Shut Up Juice? 🙂

      Very true, Jill, and a masterful display of verbal fencing between two skilled rivals can be a joy to behold (or participate in). It’s an art form, though, and when emotions run high, the rapier may transform into an axe…or a chainsaw.

      It’s all fun and games until somebody loses an eye. Wear your safety gear and know your sparring partner well.

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